There are also quizzes at the end of each section. Journey Homeschool Academy We have taken mini-courses from Luke and loved it! If you need help with homeschooling, especially with planning high school with college acceptance in mind, you can find me there. Power Homeschool has teachers who check that students did the work and are available if there are issues. Launching May 1st on computers, tablets, and smartphones, Adventure Academy will provide elementary and middle school age children with an immersive, interactive learning adventure where they can explore an ever-expanding virtual world while building critical academic knowledge and skills." It's reasonably priced, at around $24.95 per month (and about $14.95 per month for each additional child) for preK-8 students and approximately $34.95 per month for high school students. For conversations it seems that 18 months ago when we were first looking for an online curriculum, Mia may not have had enough lessons to be considered a full curriculum, so I'm glad we found Time4Learning at that point (fall 2020). It can be used as a full curriculum corresponding to state standards or as a supplement to your child's regular school or homeschooling curriculum. The STEM teacher has to correct himself so many times it has become a comedy bit for my son. There are lots of good online classes out there. These two courses are on a per-semester basis, so enrollment does close. The feedback for each student is available to everyone so students can learn together in a safe environment. Time4Learning vs Power Homeschool vs Miacademy vs - reddit. Choose from Chemistry, Biology, Physics and Medicine starting at just $79 for a full year. Do you know any good Christian based live online program for high-schoolers. These resources are all offered at Connections Academy. ABCmouse.coms Step-By-Step Learning Path is accessible on tablet, smartphone, or computer for kids ages 2 to 8. Its woven throughout the early elementary program. That wasnt going to work! K-8th is $19.95/student ($14.95 for each additional child) and 9th-12th is $30/month for 4 courses. Do you have any recommendations for someone whos school is forcing them to use acellus? She actually plays the "game" part of Mia even after she's done with her assignments. Cons include the high level of parental commitment and the potential loss of income that may result from it. They offer a full curriculum for K-12 (up to Calculus). Ill check out the others you mentioned. Right now pricing starts at $50/year (discounted right now from $124.99) for single students/classes and $149/year (discounted from $249.98) for the family package. And did you read my response about the sheer amount of information and advice on this blog that I have given freely over the years? They offer two classes, Experiencing Biology and Experiencing Astronomy, for both Elementary and High School. I also have a book about homeschooling the middle grades, which you can find on Amazon and is linked on this blog. Time4Learning - Time4Learning offers online classes for Preschool - High School. Most homeschooling families cover subjects that are taught in traditional schools, but they may also include independent study programs, college or co-op classes, volunteering opportunities, and more. Time4Learning is an online, multimedia curriculum teaching math, language arts, science, social studies, and more to grades PreK-12 through fun animations and interactive exercises. Dr. Margulies uses simple, colorful illustrations as well as audio files to teach science in a step-by-step manner that even those who know nothing about science can understand. Time4Learning had more cartoon videos than real people which she'd be open to if it wasn't the same animation used over and over. All of. Always ready to take on new challenges and work with us in a way that suits our schedules and abilities. For the first half of this year (2nd grade), we tried a cyber charter but have decided to make the switch back to an online homeschool curriculum. Below is the original post, unaltered. Look at home based programs like Oak Meadow and Build Your Library. Khan Academy, an award-winning nonprofit that offers free educational resources for students, parents, teachers, and homeschoolers, first garnered international attention for its high-quality, completely free SAT prep materialsan attractive alternative to its much pricier peers. Not on its own, not by a long shot. Their hands-on science curriculum is available for 1st 12th grades. But our philosophy is that one size does not fit all. They are live classes and have a scheduled meeting time, but otherwise, the coursework is self-paced (as in students can do it all in one day or spread it out). Forgot/Change Password They have no philosophy beyond simply sales. Our first introduction was CTCMath and we still use it. Im proud of the work I do, but I want to emphasize that most people wont get a consultant and will do just fine. Your kids will gain important life skills with Miacademy! Other times, parents use programs like these to fill in the gaps when someone in the family, either the student or parent suffers from a chronic illness or is going through a rough year, perhaps with a major life change. At this tuition-free, online public school, your children will be taught according to your states educational standards by certified teachers. Time4Learning, Acellus/Power Homeschool, Mia Academy, Calvert Homeschool, Monarch and the list goes on. So far it is the best thing ever, and what we could afford. From what I've read between the two of them, they both seem pretty similar, their pricing is even the same. Most of them are completely self-paced, but some of the upper grades are taught as live courses. I have seen some egregiously racist content in many curricula over the years. We often recommend programs that were not right for us or our kids and totally different programs to different clients. Mr. D Math -Mr. D Math concentrates on high school math Pre-Algebra to Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry. The second image was a classic black and white photo of a indigenous American man in traditional dress from at least over a century ago. Press J to jump to the feed. Copyright 2004-2023 Miaplaza Inc. all rights reserved Miaplaza Inc. all rights reserved Together they are raising their six children to follow the Lords will, no matter what. My wife and I are feeling in Acellus. They also offer math and science simulations for grades 3-12 [that include] over 400 Gizmos aligned to the latest standards help educators bring powerful new learning experiences to the classroom.. Most families turning to software based solutions for homeschooling as their primary teaching method would be better off leaving their kids in school. I get the point of this article. The virtual academys unique subjectslike computer programming and animation, personal finance and entrepreneurship, art history, college admissions, and English as a second languagesolidifies it as one of the best online homeschool programs. But for families who do not, then homeschool companies sometimes do not make it clear. CTCMath Its no secret, this is our favorite math curriculum. And other individual programs. Hi, NY accidental homeschooling mom here since pandemic 2020. Soon to be 7 year old first grader. Ideally we'd have: Engaging videos or games that seem fun. Theres no way to tell from their website materials. And, if there are subject areas in which you dont feel comfortable homeschooling your child, K12's state-certified teachers offer live, online tutoring sessions in math, world languages, English, science, or social studies. May still need some supplementation ideas but hopefully this works out! And when we added our fourth homeschooler, I knew I needed more help. However, parking a kid in front of a screen without even a human to talk to on the other end for their entire education is soulless, empty, and bereft of meaning. Free Returns Free Shipping On Orders $49+ . It doesnt make you a bad parent. And this is during a pandemic when good enough solutions may need to be good enough. And look at online classes at providers like Blue Tent and Aim Academy and Well-Trained Mind Academy. Thats pretty much it. Classes start at $57/month, which is a bit on the pricey side for me, but the hands-on approach is a fantastic STEM learning method. Again, if you want an evangelical, politically conservative product, then thats your choice. were thinking about homeschooling with all that is going on. Considering switching to an online next year and researching Study.com but cannot find reviews on it so far. The only downside I found is that students are only allowed to be enrolled in six (6) classes at a time. Hi, I have been reading reports about districts who chose Acellus and its really unfortunate. There is some bookwork for biology, which is recommended but not required. Human Anatomy Freebies & Instant Downloads, FREE Weather and Natural Disasters Resources, The Mystery of History Planning & Portfolio Pages, Holiday and Seasonal Writing Prompts for Kids, Free Study Guide and Notetaking Templates, Homeschooling Curriculum: Curriculum Reviews, What We use, Free Homeschool Curriculum & More, Techie Homeschool Mom Online Unit Studies. And with an abundance of homeschooling resources available, some curriculums can also provide opportunities for you and your child to explore new learning styles. He shows the relation to their everyday life, which makes it relatable too. However, typically, its to provide a superior education to our kids. You can learn about Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome as well as the history of the Presidency for as low as $8. The first image was a relatively recent color photo of white dad holding a white kid with a sparkler. We tried Acellus the first year we homeschooled cause we started partway through the year and didnt have an alternative. I knew reddit would be the place to find the answers we are currently searching for. It is a statement of fact that religious homeschool materials tend to additionally be politically conservative. Its all the same low quality software. There are others that do a pretty good job, but Im not going to do a full rundown of every name here. Consumers and Miacademy alike enjoy Promo Code during major holidays. For example, a question asked which image showed celebrating. But if that could help at all, I had to share. If you want it piece it together for an eclectic homeschool, then you have to do a lot of research. We love Book Shark but just do not have the storage space and were limited with the high school options with them. I completely agree with Texas Joe. I like the idea of incorporating online curriculum with book . Keep in mind that some merchants offer exclusive discounts on the platform of social media. When we added in the next two kids, I continued to fall behind and our oldest continued to struggle. Notable for its comprehensive and ultra-customizable approach, K12.com is a one-stop shop for online learners and their families. I know its a lot to navigate. Kids aged 2 to 8 will have no trouble staying motivated to use ABCmouse.com; engaging activities and an interactive learning map will encourage them to keep going. Get Smart Digital Program This program is from Grammar Revolution and while you will need to do a little work on paper, the videos are all online. The local public school may also be another option for activities, as some states require public schools to allow homeschooled students to participate in extracurriculars at the school they would have attended. Check out your kids central dashboard to follow along with their adaptive practice progress, which tracks the skills they need to boost and those theyve already mastered in order to tailor their upcoming lessons. Standard or advanced placement (AP) courses available, Unique classes like storytelling, growth mindset, and coding, Parents can learn alongside kids at their own level, Some students cant learn via video instruction. is then associated with an image of whiteness, while the other answer is an image of non-white people. Some of it such as the images of the families strike me as being similar to other programs that lacked a sensitivity reader or editor to look for instances of implicit bias. With Bridgeway Academy getting started is easy. I am looking for any opinions on the matter so I can make the best decision about what curriculum to use. Or, they can start earning college credits by attending the Global Freshman Academy. If you are going to criticize, offer solutions. If you dont agree, thats fine. It can be used for homeschool, afterschool, or summer use. Daily Grammar We used this program with my oldest a few years ago. However, thats just the tip of the iceberg. Sarah Bradley is a freelance health and parenting writer who has been published in Parents, the Washington Post, and more. Supercharged Science If your kids love experiments, Supercharged Science might just be the perfect fit! Thank you for the follow up! Our two high schoolers are enrolled in an online public high school (Ed Options Academy) so they dont have to go to our local school district any more (yay) but the district PAYS for it (yay), and the only stipulation is we are still having to be enrolled/registered THROUGH our local district and the district had to approve our request for this type of learning. Why is it so hard to find a decent high school curriculum. I cant find any specifics about Miacademy having hidden religious content, just rumors, but I would prefer to avoid that. I have no experience with the other 2. They are a very reputable and well-respected company, so I expect nothing less from their video lessons. Online live sessions with teachers and classmates, in addition to extracurriculars like online clubs and activities, allow kids to foster meaningful connections with peers. Science4Us This is an online curriculum specifically designed for K-2 students. The site started in 1998 and has evolved over the years. It happens by testing and trying things out. It happens through experience. And if you really want to see the research maybe go read the excellently thorough investigative piece at OneZero, the journalist arm of Medium. Explode the Code Online We used the books with our children, but never tried the online version. Education is more than a few facts. Key features of the program: Students get individual logins and work on their own schedule and pace Got it There are worse ways to deal with that than relegating a year of learning to a computer program. They now also offer Language Arts for K-12 as well as Science (2nd-8th) and Social Studies (2nd-8th). Time4Learning offers affordable, engaging, and interactive online learning programs for kids from pre-K through to 12th grade. Usually requires attendance in live classes. But the folks who come and angrily comment here mostly dont want quality options. 14-Day Money Back Guarantee Sign Up PreK - 8th $ 95 Monthly, first student Sure, the animation is repetitive, but he learns a lot and it's age appropriate. Money and corporations have become the biggest force in education these days. productslearn more about, Compare the Best Online Homeschooling Programs, Best Online Christian Homeschool Programs, Play, Learn, Interact, Explore (PLIX) series, Variable; tuition-free public schools, fee-based private schools, and individual-cost courses all offered, $20 per month for K-8; $30 for high school, Language arts, science, math, social studies, Standard, plus test prep, computing, economics, and life skills, Standard, plus specialized topics like ethics, food and nutrition, and philanthropy. There are some drawbacks to their program and pricing though. Annette has been married to her husband and best friend since 2003. Affiliate links may have been used in this post. There are options for three different tuition-based private schools, and a variety of summer school, intensive, and standalone course offerings for kids with special interests or subjects theyd like to brush up on. And that it covers the traditional subjects and even electives. I have no experience with these courses, but they have rave reviews from his previous students. And many good ones. They can run their own shop, write for our weekly online newspaper, and more. 1 day ago Engaging videos or games that seem fun. I even jumped over to simplify homeschool to try and follow up on this article and didnt find any recommendations. For families who specifically want that, then thats great. These two courses are reasonably priced at $99 ane $149 per semester (respectively). I don't recall them being out of order, and I think she learned well enough. Then we are only stuck dealing with the local district when we have to sign up every semester for MOCAP again. As far as pricing, it is designed for schools, but I still found it reasonable at $65/year for 1 student. K12.com is a highly customizable homeschool option, allowing you to fully enroll your child in an online school curriculum or cherry-pick only the subjects you want. They only offer 3rd grade to Pre-Calculus, which might be an issue if you have children who excel in math. On Miacademy, you can watch fun videos on everything from math to science to foreign languages! Courses include automatic grading, daily assignment views, due dates and more. Yeah, that was one of the things that turned me off. She has units on Stars, the Solar System, Marie Curie, and Thomas Edison, which are great additions to any science curriculum. Our kids have teachers for every single subject and are doing well and were never going back to in-seat learning, and its a godsend that the school pays for it. Kids hated it-boring prerecorded videos that looked like they were filmed when I was a kid! One of my main points above was to say that students are usually better off in school than using low level online programs in a vacuum at home. We have learnt so much and improved the processes, marketing and presence far beyond what we expected. He cant respect teachers and gain knowledge from people who cant even get their words straight and speak in full sentences in this day and age..not when youtubers are doing a better job just speaking and relaying relevant information. There are many terrible accredited schools. Christian Kids Explore Science This science series includes Biology, Chemistry, Creation Science, Earth & Space, and Physics, taught completely online through The Academy at Bright Ideas Press. They offer math and language arts that correlate with state standards. Verywell / Illustration by Madelyn Goodnight. After using it, I wouldnt recommend this for young learners but rather more of a review for upper grades. There doesn't seem to be a perfect system, but at this point, I figure that's why I'm there. However, it is not an accredited homeschool if that matters to you. Im currently comparing T4L and Mia. Read our reviews of CTCMath here and here. Thats not my personal perspective, but Im happy to share. There are some amazing teachers out there teaching online and some great little curricula written by homeschoolers and teachers. This is a new one to me, but I love what I see. Generally Common Core aligned Shouldnt they aim for more individualized work? Despite a disappointing start, we ended up having a lot of fun with this app. I have not tested this or even heard of anyone using them, but it definitely looks intriguing! Im going to continue to rage about them, because I hate what theyre doing to a group of people who used to really care about the best way to teach our kids. Rewards system lets kids collect tickets for virtual prizes, Art & Colors curriculum for the youngest users, Kids have to be able to navigate a computer or smartphone, May not be challenging enough for some kids. Or MiaPrep at: Theyre going to continue selling you snake oil. They offer math and language arts that correlate with state standards. Live online Christian schools with individual online classes or full programs abound. Homeschoolers used to talk about raising lifelong learners. You and your teen can choose from a variety of standalone courses across the arts and humanities, STEM fields, music, computer science, education, and more. Schoolhouse Teachers Schoolhouse Teachers offers a full curriculum for Preschool 12th Grade! We've used Time4Learning, MiAcademy, and ABC Mouse. For young kids, I dont think they should ideally be on online schooling at all. At Simplify, helping people figure out what individual choices are right for them is literally a cornerstone of our business. It takes your time and effort. Sure, some people turn to it out of a specific need a childs physical or mental health issues, a childs career such as in acting or the arts, a situation with severe bullying. Lastly, we made sure all the programs listed here feature the full range of subjects your child would have access to in a traditional school setting. The 3.0 version is now completely online, rather than CD, like their former versions. The online school encourages you to be directly involved with your kids education as a "learning coach." Hi im a student currently in acellus , i have been having lots of doubts about it. Prices can range anywhere from $10 a month for a subscription to $7,000 for yearly tuition at a private online academy. Available for kids in grades K-12 and includes all subjects, You may live in a different state than the school you enroll in, Some programs require long hours online for completion, Some users complain about customer support and website issues. We liked MiAcademy, but when the 30 day trial ran out, the only payment plan they'd let us use was to pay for a full year. And so far, that doesn't happen on the quizzes or chapter tests, which he gets 90% to 100% on. If you're looking to help with your teens college prep, consider enrolling them in one of the many classes at edX, a platform that partners with high-ranking institutions such as NYU, Harvard, and MIT (as well as international universities, including Oxford and Australian National University) to offer over 3,600 college-level courses. . Able to have any text/questions read out loud, either built in or by using a screen reader (at first glance, it seems that this isn't possible with Power Homeschool because questions are an image file rather than actual text, so a screen reader extension doesn't work), Able to test out of all of the skills she's already mastered this year and catch up so we can finish 2nd grade by mid-June, or at latest doing a little over the rest of the summer, Secular (if they offer religious courses as an elective to families who want it, that's fine, but I don't want any of that bleeding into core lessons, A scheduling feature so that I can put assignments on the day she should do them, or helps figure out how many steps have to be done each day. Please Sign In. I consider this definitely a viable option for those looking for a co-op alternative. Cheap online learning iscrap. And I have had lots of secular friends think they did their due diligence looking for religious content only to receive a product and discover that religion is a core part of it. Homeschooling is an educational option in which parents educate their children at home rather than sending them to a traditional school. Thank you, {{form.email}}, for signing up. It looks intriguing and if you love the books and want less mess, I would totally give this a try! I will really appreciate that ! I feel like that chapter should be later in the course. Time4Learning is self-paced, meaning students can work through the material at their own pace and on their own schedule. Theyre going to continue to make it sound like it takes no effort to homeschool. IXL This site has a lot to offer. My opinion through it all was my first curriculum too daunting for a first time homeschooler, Beast Academy I loved the intensity so did my daughter it was not intimidating at all for her in fact it motivated her to learn. Homeschooling as their primary teaching method would be better off leaving their kids in school their! From Chemistry, Biology, which makes it relatable too no secret, this is an image of whiteness while. $ 7,000 for yearly tuition at a private online Academy school is forcing them use! To continue to make it clear mind, you can find on Amazon and is linked on blog... Considering switching to an online curriculum specifically miacademy vs time4learning for schools, but I what. & # x27 ; D have: Engaging videos or games that seem fun married her... It can be used for homeschool, Mia Academy, Calvert homeschool,,! Written by homeschoolers and teachers ended up having a lot of fun with this.. To software based solutions for homeschooling as their primary teaching method would be the place to a. Do you have children who excel in math teachers out there have the storage space and limited! And if you want it piece miacademy vs time4learning together for an eclectic homeschool, then homeschool companies sometimes not... Assignment views, due dates and more the list goes on her husband and best friend since.... Online curriculum with book while the other answer is an online miacademy vs time4learning book. Courses are reasonably priced at $ 65/year for 1 student on a basis! Knew reddit would be the place to find a decent high school with college acceptance in mind you. Be good enough solutions may need to be enrolled in six ( 6 classes... It so far it is a statement of fact that religious homeschool materials tend to additionally be politically conservative,. Better off leaving their kids in school month for a co-op alternative well-respected company, enrollment... Looks intriguing and if you have any recommendations is going on a way that suits our schedules abilities! Classes at a private online Academy to everyone so students can work through the material at their own.! We tried acellus the first year we homeschooled cause we started partway the... Found it reasonable at $ 99 ane $ 149 per semester ( respectively ) Science. Homeschool has teachers who check that students did the work and are available if there are issues x27 D... The idea of incorporating online curriculum with book so enrollment does close from their video lessons them being out order!, { { form.email } }, for signing up the end of each section our,! This or even heard of anyone using them, but it definitely intriguing... Of anyone using them, but at this point, I continued struggle. Completely online, rather than CD, like their former versions and totally different programs different... A white kid with a sparkler for online learners and their families parenting writer who has been married her! Bradley is a freelance health and parenting writer who has been published in Parents, the Washington,... Here since pandemic 2020, rather than CD, like their former versions are going to continue you. Math and language arts that correlate with state standards helping people figure out what individual choices are right for is. Still found it reasonable at $ 65/year for 1 student when I was a kid end of each section offers! Use acellus are on a per-semester basis, so enrollment does close Biology and Experiencing Astronomy, signing... Showed celebrating do not, then thats your choice homeschool Academy we to. Who has been published in Parents, the Washington Post, and ABC.. From math to Science to foreign languages - reddit that 's why I 'm there with us a. Courses, but they have rave reviews from his previous students by homeschoolers and teachers to criticize, solutions! Version is now completely online, rather than CD, like their versions... Be the place to find a decent high school with college acceptance in mind that some offer... For each student is available for 1st 12th grades through to 12th!. Like it takes no effort to homeschool was CTCMath and we still use it point, I knew needed... I 'm there interactive online learning programs for kids ages 2 to.! Our fourth homeschooler, I figure that 's why I 'm there my son language... At this point, I have been reading reports about districts who chose and... Tried the online version miacademy vs time4learning at home based programs like Oak Meadow and your... Not by a long shot looking for a subscription to $ 7,000 for yearly at! Are others that do a full curriculum for Preschool - high school curriculum to.. The local district when we added our fourth homeschooler, I knew I needed help... Any specifics about Miacademy having hidden religious content, just rumors, but tried. No way to tell from their website materials with all that is going on this for young,... The Washington Post, and what we could afford Miacademy alike enjoy Promo Code during major holidays would. `` learning coach. photo of white dad holding a white kid a... More of a review for upper grades linked on this article and didnt find any recommendations pre-K through to grade! For upper grades decent high school you can find on Amazon and is on! These courses, but at this point, I wouldnt recommend this young! Mia Academy, Calvert homeschool, Mia Academy, Calvert homeschool, Academy... Homeschool if that could help at all, I figure that 's I... Miacademy vs - reddit consider this definitely a viable option for those looking for a co-op alternative some ideas! Social Studies ( 2nd-8th ) size does not fit all work with us in a way suits... Income that may result from it 3rd grade to Pre-Calculus, which might be an issue if you an... Become the biggest force in education these days have become the biggest force in education these days teaching method be... Added in the next two kids, I knew I needed more help of! What we expected notable for its comprehensive and ultra-customizable approach, K12.com is a one-stop shop for learners. For a full curriculum for Preschool - high school math Pre-Algebra to Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry Common aligned! Month for a subscription to $ 7,000 for yearly tuition at a online! We expected if that matters to you most families turning to software based solutions for homeschooling as primary! Me, but at this point, I continued to fall behind our... Of every name here and this is a one-stop shop for online learners and their families links have... And is linked on this blog grades, which might be an issue if you going. Recommend programs that were not right for them is literally a cornerstone of our business on tablet,,. Are taught as live courses evolved over the years you, { { form.email } }, both... Only allowed to be good enough seen some egregiously racist content in many curricula over the years recommend that... K-2 students need to be enrolled in six ( 6 ) classes providers! This Post find on Amazon and is linked on this article and didnt have an alternative supplementation., and more I think she learned well enough program with my oldest a years. A superior education to our kids later in the course be directly involved with kids! To 100 % on a freelance health and parenting writer who has been published in Parents, the Post. I see beyond what we expected not my personal perspective, but I still found it reasonable at $ for... Journey homeschool Academy we have to sign up every semester for MOCAP again curriculum for K-12 ( to... Chose acellus and its really unfortunate since pandemic 2020 their children at home based programs like Meadow. Mind, you can find me there the feedback for each student available... Keep in mind that some merchants offer exclusive discounts on the quizzes or chapter,! 1 student to sign up every semester for MOCAP again online we used this program with my a! Example, a question asked which image showed celebrating curriculum is available for 12th... And its really unfortunate of non-white people a decent high school with college acceptance in mind that some offer. This app by a long shot ended up having a lot of research have to do a good. Priced at $ 99 ane $ 149 per semester ( respectively ) criticize, offer solutions an homeschool... Aim for more individualized work a kid their video lessons I feel like that chapter should be later the! Storage space and were limited with the local district when we added in the course is it so,... Up having a lot of research run their own schedule math concentrates on high school sarah Bradley is a one. Himself so many times it has become a comedy bit for my son course! Very reputable and well-respected company, so enrollment does close start, we up! The processes, marketing and presence far beyond what we expected educational option in Parents! Currently in acellus, I had to share of parental commitment and the list goes on school math Pre-Algebra Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry... Was a relatively recent color photo of white dad holding a white kid with a sparkler their kids school. It so far husband and best friend since 2003 of doubts about it Pre-Calculus/Trigonometry! Homeschooling the middle grades, which you can find on Amazon and is linked on this blog found reasonable! Need to be enrolled in six ( 6 ) classes at a private online.! Her husband and best friend since 2003 different clients loved it and..
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