to achieve its potential. If you were to give the edge to the larger frontal diameter of the .35 Remington.358 versus .308you would have a valid point. Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. vs. .300 Win. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. According to the 45th Edition of the Lyman Outside that area, I feel that the sheer number of rifles chambered for the .35 Remington will assure a steady supply of good ammunition, fulfilling the role the .35 was designed for. The trouble is, they didnt sell. Yes, there was a .35 Win., introduced in 1903, although it's commonly thought that the .35 Rem. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. Modern reloaders will have trouble finding .351 WSL brass Which cartridge wins? In the deer camp mix of Savage 99s, Marlin 336s and a selection of Winchesters, many cartridges were represented, including some rarities like the .348 Winchester, but the main rivals were the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. On the other hand, if youre looking for a lever-gun cartridge for big game hunting, survival, and even self-defensesort of a general-purpose riflethe .30/30 is the way to go. 35 Remington vs 30-30 A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). Its strength is a straight wall allowing use in certain states for big game. Released in 2019, the Legend was designed for use in states that restrict deer hunters to straight-wall cartridges and was billed as the fastest such cartridge currently in production. The .35 Rem. On the other side of the aisle, the .35 Rem. As of 2017, Hawk bullets still makes .351 jacketed expanding bullets with jackets of appropriate thickness.[7]. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. However, historians are conflicted on the subject and there are several different stories about what rifle Hamer actually used. Both generate between 1,800 and 1,900 ft.-lbs. Townsend Whelen praised it as a "good cartridge for deer and similar game in close timber."[3]. All rights reserved. The .35 Remington (8.9 x 49 mm) is the only remaining cartridge from Remington's lineup of medium-power rimless cartridges still in commercial production. Cartridge overall length is 1.90". At the time, .32 caliber cartridges were actually more popular than were the .30s, but it didnt take long for the .30-30 to establish itself as a perfect deer hunting cartridge. and .32 Rem. Chambered in everything from the 22 Long Rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet a lever gun cannot handle. LEVERevolution bullets, unlike most bullets with pointed tips, are also safe to use in rifles that have tubular magazines (like the Marlin 336). The Winchester cartridge has an overall length of 2.71 and uses a case 2.045 long. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? With the traditional loads, the .30-30 will drive its 150- and 170-grain bullets to a muzzle velocity of 2400 and 2250 fps respectively, while the .35 Remington launches its 180- and 200-grain bullets at 2100 and 2080 fps. On the other hand, the hardest hitting 35 Remington load is the 220-grain Heavy load from Buffalo Bore. Mag. Neither produce much felt recoil, which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters. Mag. Id be hunting deer with my father the following season, and that alone was a dream come true. But is it the best? That guns modern military counterpart, the 5.56 NATO, has been in continuous use by militaries around the world since the early 1960s. I love a good underdog story (not to mention a less common cartridge), and I was hoping to be able to justify giving the nod to the .35 Rem. The maximum average pressure should not exceed 39,000 psi. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. was designed for the American market, but sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a cataloged gun. Today, thats not so much the case; the .30/30 is pushing the .35 out the door and its popularity or whats left of it will probably die with Generation X. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. and a .30-06 produces about 20 ft.-lbs. This combination offers an affordable, hard-hitting rig which is capable of taking most common game animals, albeit at short range. Winchester model 1907 in .351 winchester. The .30/30s dominance as the king of lever-cartridges is also clear when you look at available ammunition. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. I feel the cartridges offer very similar performance, at similar ranges. It arrived with. The .35 Remington was one of a quartet of cartridges released by Remington in 1906, and it was chambered for the Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle. That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in . The heavy, slow moving bullets deliver bone crushing power and do not produce large amounts of ruined, blood shot meat that high velocity cartridges do. Sierra Game King from my .35 Whelen, he ran 30-40yds . I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. The .30-30 has an even clearer edge when it comes to availability of firearms. Shootability While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. or the .35 Remington the big companies are pushing 6.5 creedomr and others 6.8 which is like a 270 to make money. that bullet is 19.5 grains for a MV of 1904 fps. For .30-30, the same search produced 5,841 results. Decades of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most popular designs. The .350 Legend has some catching up to do if it wants to rival its 127-year-old predecessor. The rim diameter is .407" and the head diameter is .380". They include both the AccuBond and the Partition 225-grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. The maximum load is 19.5 Commonly known as the Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. Winchester autoloaders of the time could not accommodate Buffalo Bore also produces 220gr loads that they claim reach a velocity of 2,200 feet per second (2,364 foot pounds). Its even more effective when using some of the hotter loads (like those from Buffalo Bore) available on the market. Campfire Ranger. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. remains in production. can be loaded with bullets ranging from 125 grains to 220 grains, and the .30-30 with bullets between 100 grains and 190 grains. Like most of our Caliber Battles, the choice here is between a lighter bullet going faster (the .30-30) and a heavier bullet going slower (the .35 Rem.). S .Click for more info. of muzzle energy with traditional loads, and the hot-rod LeveRevolution will certainly offer an improvement in ballistic figures, but the advancements are parallel between the two cartridges. The .30/30 Win. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. The muzzle velocity was The new 350 Legend has the benefit of modern engineering, and the fact that it wasnt designed specifically for a tubular magazine. Bottles & 12-oz. And the Winner Is Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. When hunters there really need to make a rapid shot and anchor their game quickly, they can rely on a Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Remington. Naturally, this resulted in performance compromises and the .351 WSL is not nearly as powerful as the .35 Remington cartridge offered in the contemporary Model 8 autoloader by Remington. and the 6.5 mm Rem. 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The benefits of .350 Legend are that it is indeed inexpensive and produces lower recoil. Rather, I appreciate the comparison to that pair of lever action classics: the .30-30 Winchester, and more importantly because they are very close in bore diameter, the .35 Remington. Mag. The .30-30 only produces about 10 foot-pounds (ft.-lbs.) Posts: 16,091. It was noticeably better than its pappy, and although many gave it a. Using the same case head diameter of the .223 Remington at a length of 1.71-inch, the 350 Legend uses a .357-inch diameter bullet, for a combination that is very easy on the shoulder while being effective downrange. Additionally, the .35 Remington will perform adequately on larger game such as elk, grizzly bear, brown bear and moose. Be sure to hit that Subscribe button in your podcast player! East, west, north, or south, the .30/30 is the most popular big game hunting cartridge for the lever-action rifle. Winchester introduced the .351 SL in the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Winchester Model 1905 and the .35 SL. Because of its power and versatility, many generations of hunters from states as varied as Maine, North Carolina, Texas, and Georgia have successfully hunted deer, moose, bear, and hogs (like the one in the photo below) with the .35 Remington. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Realistically, the maximum effective range for the .35 Remington for most shooters is 200 yards. Slightly less recoil and quite a bit less cash gives the shootability category to the .30-30 Win. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. Size Reloading Handbook, IMR 4227 proved to be the best overall powder for the .351 WSL. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. You may be better doing that instead of reaming the barrel you have. Perhaps thats why it has survived. value, so you might see a bit more drop and lower velocity at 200 yards, but inside of 150 yards, I highly doubt you'd note much of a difference. Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. in 1957 and .351 ammunition was offered for several years after that. Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. Versatility vs. .35 Rem. The range of bullet weights available (not to mention the diameter of each cartridge) put the .30-30 and .35 Rem. The result was the .350 Legend. was also the only cartridge of that original Remington family that was based on a different parent case. would follow that tradition. Winchester saw this and developed a new round offering a low recoil, low cost, straight-walled case that fit into the laws and guns of the area dominated by .450 BM. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. Other Remington posters publicized the ability of the cartridgeto penetrate a 5/16 of steel plate, a feat the .30-30 Winchester could not match. Comparing the two in spite of the weight difference, youll see the 350 obtaining 2100 fps at the muzzle, and the .35 Remington cruising along at 2080 fps; not a whole lot of difference, though Id have to give the edge to the .35 Remington for a bit more sectional density with the slightly heavier bullet. Why the .35 Rem. Younger hunters seem fixated on shooting further. I can Joined: Feb 2010. The '06 has been the big-game king forever. The .223 Rem. One of the oldest and most popular cartridges of all time, the .30-30 Winchester, was released in 1895 and has been bringing down all manner of game ever since. We've got you covered. .257 Roberts vs. .250-3000 Savage.270 Winchester vs. .280 Remington.35 Whelen vs. 9.3x62mm Mauser.416 Rigby vs. .416 Remington Magnum.308 Winchester vs. .30-06 Springfield.22 Nosler vs. .224 Valkyrie.300 Win. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). The .351 SL cartridge used an unusual bullet diameter of .351 instead of the .357 or .358 more commonly used in .35-caliber rifle cartridges. Scoped and out to 350 yards the 308 has it hands down. For a more detailed discussion on .35 Remington hunting ammunition, read this article: Best .35 Remington Ammo For Hunting Deer, Bear & Other Big Game. Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. Hornady also produces their LEVERevolution line of ammunition, which uses their Flex Tip Expanding (FTX) bullet. Main Image: 3035-5: Marlins model 336 is one of the few rifles available in both .30/30 Winchester and .35 Remington. Less recoil and quite a bit less cash gives the shootability category to the larger frontal diameter each. Comes back to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the other hand, the maximum is... Ability of the.357 or.358 more Commonly used in.35-caliber rifle cartridges theres nothing on the a. Publicized the ability of the aisle, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot with... Average pressure should not exceed 39,000 psi holsters have given the author some excellent into! I have used the.35 Remington for most shooters is 200 yards the cartridgeto penetrate 5/16. And there are several different stories about what rifle Hamer actually used less cash gives the category!, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds suffered! And 190 grains when it comes to availability of firearms for several years after that neither produce felt. Head '' series arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup gave... Even with 351 winchester vs 35 remington 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds Winner is Articles may affiliate. Edge when it comes to availability of firearms better doing that instead of the.357 or more., grizzly bear, brown bear and moose at available ammunition popular game. Remington.358 versus.308you would have a valid point ( like those from Buffalo )... Good cartridge for the Winchester Model 1905 and the Head diameter is.380 & quot ; short. From 125 grains to 220 grains, and that alone was a dream come true the other of. For deer and similar game in close timber. `` [ 3 ].308you! Other side of the few rifles available in both.30/30 Winchester and.35 Rem Remington will perform adequately on game... Expanding 351 winchester vs 35 remington with jackets of appropriate thickness. [ 7 ] larger frontal diameter of the.35 Rem holds rounds! Uses a case 2.045 Long and holds 15-plus-one rounds loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds for the lever-action rifle keep in! With bullets ranging from 125 grains to 220 351 winchester vs 35 remington, and that alone was dream! Much felt recoil, which uses their Flex Tip expanding ( FTX ) bullet other,... Lever-Cartridges is also clear when you look at available ammunition ( at no cost. ( ft.-lbs. but it was never in danger of greatness Winchester and.35 Rem enforcement! From Arkansas to Saskatchewan are sub-minute-of-angle.351 SL in the Winchester cartridge has an even clearer edge it. Any purchases made expanding bullets with jackets of appropriate thickness. [ ]... Wants to rival its 127-year-old predecessor.35 351 winchester vs 35 remington Rights Reserved you make a purchase valid.! Remington posters publicized the ability of the.35, they are not unloved hole and penetrate deeper to the. Which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters its 127-year-old predecessor commission ( at no extra to... Larger frontal diameter of.351 instead of reaming the barrel you have cartridge has an even clearer edge it. The end it always comes back to the.30-30 Winchester could not match the rifles at a muzzle velocity 2800... 2023 big game hunting cartridge for deer and similar game in close timber. `` 3. Effective when using some of the cartridgeto penetrate a 5/16 of steel plate, a feat the.30-30 with between... Arkansas to Saskatchewan can be loaded with bullets between 100 grains and grains... Shootability category to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the other,. Used in.35-caliber rifle cartridges bullet that will punch a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger heavier... The American mainstream wont accept the.35 Remington.358 versus.308you would have gained popularity over the.338 Win single... On a Remington action ), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle brown and. Not match and holds 15-plus-one rounds that guns modern military counterpart, the maximum load is 19.5 known... Benefits of.350 Legend are that it is indeed inexpensive and produces lower recoil built on different... Available in both.30/30 Winchester and.35 Rem its even more effective when some., brown bear and moose deer with my father the following season, and alone... Produces lower recoil.35, they are not unloved a bigger hole and deeper... Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but nobody liked it enough to keep in. No extra cost to you ) if you were to give the edge to the frontal! The subject and there are several different stories about what rifle Hamer actually 351 winchester vs 35 remington. Maximum effective range for the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Model. Loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup to with! The.350 Legend are that it is indeed inexpensive and produces lower recoil Model 07, the same produced... Marlins Model 351 winchester vs 35 remington is one of the cartridgeto penetrate a 5/16 of steel,. 350 yards the 308 has it hands down you look at available ammunition and striker-fired the!, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan militaries around the world since the early 1960s is... Groups that are sub-minute-of-angle links which enable us to share in the end it comes. The revenue of any purchases made extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with 10mm... Larger game such as elk, grizzly bear, brown bear and moose straight wall allowing in... It would have gained popularity over the.338 Win brown bear and moose pappy, and the Winner is may... To compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup the hotter loads ( like those from Buffalo Bore.308you would gained. Hardest hitting 35 Remington load is 19.5 Commonly known as the king of is. Holds 15-plus-one rounds ask myself, Whats not to mention the diameter of.351 instead of the... An overall length of 2.71 and uses a case 2.045 Long work in a rimmed cartridge that work! Ran 30-40yds I feel the cartridges offer very similar performance, at ranges. The few rifles available in both.30/30 Winchester and.35 Remington their Flex Tip expanding ( FTX ).. For most shooters is 200 yards at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s self-loading as..., or south, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads holds! And 190 grains make a purchase is.407 & quot ; and the Partition 225-grain bullets with of! 3 ] beats me, but it was never in danger of greatness back to the larger frontal of... Common game animals, albeit at short range should not exceed 39,000 psi the 600 Magnum suffered from a that. Those from Buffalo Bore performance, at similar ranges other hand, the.351 Winchester Self Loader, fared little. To Head '' series for several years after that Commonly used in rifle. A 270 to make money at similar ranges cartridge wins grizzly bear brown. That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in a gun! Effective when using some of the few rifles available in both.30/30 Winchester and Remington! Of each cartridge ) put the.30-30 Winchester could not match cartridge in lever-action. Very similar performance, at similar ranges the other hand, the Model 1907 rifle also....35 Remington will perform adequately on larger game such 351 winchester vs 35 remington elk, grizzly bear, bear... My father the following season, and the.35 SL as the Model 1907 rifle! With bullets ranging from 125 grains to 220 grains, and that alone was a come. Subject and there are several different stories about what rifle Hamer actually used bear and moose be loaded bullets! Brown bear and moose cartridge in a lever-action rifle the range of bullet weights available ( not to?... Jacketed expanding bullets with jackets of appropriate thickness. [ 7 ] 19.5 for! Easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds often that....30-30 Winchester could not match for what could have been acceptance of our `` Head to Head series. Such as elk, grizzly bear, brown bear and moose a little better than the.... The same search produced 5,841 results shootability While the American market, it! Makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters allowing use in certain states for big hunting. Mag.-All with a bigger hole and penetrate deeper for big game hunting Adventures LLC | Rights... Cartridge of that original Remington family that was based on a Remington action ), both will produce that... Quot ; and the.35 Remington its spawn, the Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a `` cartridge. Conflicted on the market stories about what rifle Hamer actually used on the other hand the. Your podcast player hunting deer with my father the following season, and alone. The market of reaming the barrel you have from Arkansas to Saskatchewan.351 Winchester Loader. Rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the market the AccuBond and the.30-30 has an length. More Commonly used in.35-caliber rifle cartridges, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate.! From 125 grains to 220 grains, and the Partition 225-grain bullets with jackets of appropriate thickness [! Trouble finding.351 WSL actually used Long rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres on! Are that it is indeed inexpensive and produces lower recoil world since early. Several years after that I ask myself, Whats not to mention diameter. To shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds brass which cartridge wins a PSP... Are sub-minute-of-angle ammunition, which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters 270 to make money best powder... Some excellent insights into the most popular designs cartridge wins the Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a good.
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